Alex & Tommy // White Sparrow Coffee

Tustin, May 4 2024

Can you start by introducing yourselves and telling us a bit about White Sparrow Coffee?

Alex: My name is Alex. I am the owner of White Sparrow Coffee.

Tommy: My name is Tommy, and I'm the manager of White Sparrow Coffee. 

Alex: We opened up a specialty coffee shop here in Old Town Tustin. I'm a native here, born and raised. Something that I thought was missing was really good coffee, craft coffee. I was always having to go to Costa Mesa or L.A. to find some really good coffee shops. And eventually I thought it'd be really cool to introduce a specialty coffee bar into this area and see where it goes. We got the opportunity to start off in the bookstore right across the street, and start off as a little coffee bar, we just jerry-rigged the whole thing. And then we grew from there.

How did you get into coffee in the first place? Is there a deeper meaning in coffee for you?

Alex: For me, I got into it when I was in college. I loved going to coffee shops to study and get some work done. And I think eventually I just fell in love with the atmosphere, the ambiance, and the baristas. I love seeing the regulars that come in day in and day out, and they get super personable with you. I've always been very hospitable, I love having people over in my place. I love having people come over to enjoy the atmosphere that I'm able to provide, and that's something I want to provide to not just my friends and family, but an entire community. When you really welcome people with open arms, they feel like your friends. It's just a great atmosphere to be a part of.

Tommy: I had always been in food service and coffee stuck with me throughout that. Coffee was just this nice bridge between a customer and a business. I think it goes a lot past the cup of coffee, and I think that’s how we've cultivated a big community here. It sucks because I feel like that community term is lost nowadays. So many coffee shops are pushing that. But in reality, I feel like there's a lack of it too. I think they try to sell that image. For us, that's something that's really important, and we kind of built it on our backs. My favorite example I always like to share is that we've seen ourselves organically grow, and we've seen our customers grow with us too. Seeing customers get married, to having kids, to getting to know their kids. I think it's a really beautiful thing that naturally has happened. It's nice seeing the toddlers come in and now they're full grown kids walking in. I think that's a big part of why we do what we do. On top of that too, we're maintaining a pretty strong coffee program for sure. We really do put a lot of heart and soul into every drink that we put out.

What other efforts are you making to cultivate a community? 

Tommy: I feel like a big part of us is just staying true to who we are. Our story of starting out with a cart. Alex started this after doing the whole corporate thing and I was in food service for so long. He brought me in right when he started this whole thing. I feel like we've just let things happen organically. I feel like we don't like to force anything upon anyone. We just stay true to ourselves and stay true to our menu, and we let things grow naturally. We started the menu out with four drinks, and now we have close to 30. We've put so much time and effort into that and we’ve stayed consistent with that, too. So I think that's another thing that was really important to us is that consistent cup of coffee that you could always rely on us for. Also events too, like catering, that was also a big root of everything. We started out at a bookstore, but then we also did weddings and wine nights. We had a big one year anniversary party, we're coming up on our two year anniversary now and already planning for that. I think a big thing is that there isn't a lot going on out here. So we are trying to give people a reason to come out. We want to be one of those places that are consistently doing that. We always have pop-ups too. As a small business ourselves, we like to support other small businesses. Every Saturday we try to have someone out front to sell something, get them off their feet. That's kind of what happened to us, so I think it's important to return the favor back to the community.

How did you guys meet? 

Tommy: I met Alex in the middle of COVID. I was working at a coffee bar in Costa Mesa. It was my fourth year there. I heard Alex was opening up a coffee cart, and I was like, oh, that's cool. Coffee carts weren't really a big thing back then. We were coming up on the tail end of Covid, it was that summer of 2021. Alex just started coming in every day. That summer was everything to a lot of the people that came into the area. It was a peak summer, a lot of great memories were made and we became close. Looking back I think it's crazy because he basically poached me. I had left coffee and was pursuing other things, and he was like, hey, I want you to be part of this. Things kind of happened organically. I think that was a big part of everything. We just hustled at it. It was just me and him here when we first opened for the first couple of months.

Alex: It was a great experience to meet him and then eventually getting to bring him down and to work here. But for me, I just wanted to bring something a little bit more niche like craft coffee into Old Town Tustin. I never thought I would ever own a business, but I kept getting pushed by friends to do it. So I just put a coffee cart together, got some friends, did our first couple events, and now we have a whole store. It obviously wasn't easy, but it was probably some of the best years of my life just going through all the stress and struggles. I loved it all. I'd do it all over again.

Tell me about your history of catering. 

Alex: Yeah. We started off doing small events at farmer's markets. We were doing pop ups at breweries and that kind of stuff. And then we started getting more into conferences and doing all these bigger events. But the one that really surprised us was Coachella Music Festival. I got hit up right when we were still building this place out. One of my friends told me Goldenvoice is looking for a coffee shop to have and we were the first people that popped up. They loved what they saw on our profile and what we were all about. So I had a conversation with their team and we talked it out, set up all the details and then we ran it from there. Now this is our third year at Coachella.

Tommy: I remember the first year we did it back in 2022, we literally had like a week or so to plan it. It was super crazy when they actually confirmed it with us, I wasn't fully working here yet. He was still waiting on the build out. So I knew that Alex was doing a lot of other things. During that period of time, we hadn't really seen each other. He was busy with this, and I was busy doing other things. He called me up and I was in L.A. and he was like, you want to go to Coachella? And I was like sure. Lo and behold, there was a behemoth of logistical nightmares that we were not prepared for, like it was just me, him and three other dudes that volunteered to come and help us out. We made it happen though. I think that that was a big part about the same kind of ethics of how we kind of built this business. We just figured it out, even though it can be a headache and it can be a logistical nightmare, I think we went out there and we put in the time and we've been blessed to be invited back the last two years. We just got back from the third year doing it. We've kind of got it down now for the most part. It's a great opportunity and it's really fun being able to serve such a wide audience out there. You got people from everywhere, whereas out here we're just serving old town Tustin. It's nice to know that we can make a bigger impact out there and also just be able to celebrate all that happens inside and outside of Coachella now. So it's really cool.

You're talking about serving a bigger impact or a bigger audience. Do you guys ever see yourself expanding to more locations? Or do you think there's a certain charm in just having just one spot?

Tommy: We've talked about it and we definitely want to make the move eventually. I think our hearts and souls are here. This is the flagship, and there's still so much to figure out here still, so we don't want to rush it. We want to stay true to ourselves. I think a big part of it is that sometimes when you're a business, you want to chase the money super quickly. We've been offered the opportunity and we’ve considered it. But I think it's about the right timing. Being one of the smallest shops, if not the smallest in Orange County, there's a lot of battles that we figure out here every week. We're still growing with the business as well. We're still figuring out a lot of things. So we don't want to dive into something else and then lose that authenticity here. I think it's definitely down the line for us. But I think we can all let things happen naturally too. I don't think we need to force anything.

What do you guys think about Orange County? What do you love about it? What do you hate about it?

Alex: Orange County is very laid back. There's definitely a huge difference in the type of people that are in LA. I feel like there's a lot of community. Not to say there's not that out in L.A., but I feel like LA is so different. I feel like L.A. has a lot more grit. It’s more volatile and chaotic. But I think that's what a lot of people like, it's almost like New York, having its own sense of rhythm. We don't have skyscrapers, tall buildings or any of that kind of stuff. So it feels very at home. But LA is also great when you're trying to go out, when you're trying to do something like a show or something big. I feel like LA is kind of where it's at. There's also a lot of great coffee shops out there, but you'll definitely notice the difference in the types of coffee shops up there compared to the coffee shops over here.

Tommy: Being born in Orange County and spending a majority of my life here, I think the beauty about serving in Orange County, in my opinion, is that it feels a lot more intimate. I think LA has more of that urgency and that grit, you lose that intimacy in the process. I think people in LA kind of don't make time for that. That segways off from  what I said earlier about community is that we're able to take that time. Being in a small town like this in Tustin, I feel like we're in a little pocket. I feel like if you know someone from Tustin, you know someone from Costa Mesa, and if you know someone from Costa Mesa, you know someone from Fullerton. L.A. is just this one big bubble. All the cities have merged together. You basically feel like you can't really do much out there. I think there's so much competition and I feel like that competitive nature also equally can feel very toxic. In Orange County a big part of it is that we're able to serve people from all over the place. People have told us they've come from the Inland Empire and LA and stuff like that because they've heard about us. Being able to be in our bubble, but invite people in. I feel like you don't get that in L.A.. When you're in LA, you're serving L.A folk. When you're in Orange County, you're serving every different city. We meet all these different people, and then you're like, oh, my God, you know that person? And dude I feel like that's really cool. I feel like that's like the coolest part about all of this and being embraced is that you meet so many people every day. And then when you cultivate that and you keep growing upon it, you realize how intertwined that is with everything in Orange County.

How do you guys provide a unique experience that makes people want to come to your spot over the millions of other ones in Orange County?

Tommy: I think a big part of it is the drinks that we do. Last year we started pursuing new seasonal drinks and all these new experimental things. I feel like a big part of that was our fall menu last year. We did a s'mores drink, we sourced the graham crackers and the hand-cut marshmallows that were shipped to us. Everything was fresh and everything was a small batch and everything was really carefully thought out. That set the tone for everything that we did following that. That's the beauty about serving a small town like Tustin. We've been able to introduce all these people to different things. Me and Alex take weeks and weeks just trying to perfect one drink. We'll try everything that we can think of. I think that's like the coolest part about it all. Being able to bring something new to the table every few months really helped us build something, too, because people get so excited to try these things, and it creates a demand for it.

Alex: Aside from the beverage making component of all that stuff, I think for me being able to provide a space where people can actually feel welcomed is important. People want to be a part of something, whether they just come in just as a routine to get their coffee, we always go that extra mile and try to have that little bit of conversation with this person every single day. You'll see their faces light up and it makes a huge difference. For me, just being very inviting towards people, whether it's at my home or anywhere else I go, that's something that I've always learned to implement everywhere I go, whether it's my baristas or my friends or my family. I always try to be welcoming and treat everyone really well, which they're gonna love just being surrounded by you. Obviously, I don't want this just to become a routine coffee shop, where people just get their coffee and get out. Like the majority of customers, they know our names. They know our story. They know our brothers and sisters because we're so close to them. We try to establish that relationship with these people and they love it. We love them.

Where do you see yourselves in the next five years? What do you guys want to be doing?

Alex: Depending on where White Sparrow goes, I would want to build one or two more locations, but I would definitely keep a cap at it. You lose sight of the actual vision once you start to grow too big. I love old town Tustin, I would love to continue to see it grow, but I feel like it's been stagnant for so long. Unless someone comes in and does something different, then nothing is ever going to get done. I want to be able to open up a wine bar. I want to open some kind of brewery, something else that is going to attract people here to hang out on the weekends or maybe throughout the week. There's a bunch of coffee shops, yes, but maybe there's something else that people can come and do. I want to provide that other thing for them. If no one else is going to do it, I'm going to come in and do it. Eventually who's to say I might just open up a pizza shop or something, but I don’t know.

Tommy: I've been with Alex basically through most of White Sparrow's history, and, being in coffee for so long, I’m actually in the process of opening my own coffee shop. I've had a blessed opportunity here and being able to build this out and see how it all is logistically and seeing the community grow. It further encouraged me to do what I want to do. I always knew that I wanted to open a coffee shop and I think this is a big stepping stone for me. So even though I would be technically leaving, I feel like a big part of it is that this relationship will always be there. I’ll always feel like a part of White Sparrow. A big part of me is going to miss a lot of the customers, honestly. Like that was the best part of the job. Being able to work here was a huge blessing. It was all just really authentic and it was really beautiful. I almost want to just take everything I've learned here and bring that to Long Beach. So I'll be hopefully getting that up and running pretty soon.

How important is fashion to the business?

Tommy: We got merch. I think that was something that we always knew we wanted to do. But I think just with the struggles of trying to run the coffee program and making sure we were staying consistent and having such a small team, it was really tough for me and Alex to really sit down and get something out. Whenever we did it, we wanted to make sure it was perfect. The current merch run has been taking us a couple of months to make. We’re just making sure we get the right blanks and the right colors and everything we want to align with the business. I think style is a big way of creating personality for yourself and how you express yourself and how you want to represent yourself. Everyone that we've hired, their style plays a big part in it, too. We allow our employees to wear what they want, and I think that allows them to be who they are. We don't want to throw uniforms or aprons at them. We wanted them to be themselves and feel comfortable. I feel like customers appreciate that.

What's your opinion on Orange County grasp on fashion?

Tommy: In LA, it's very cutthroat and it's super competitive. Everyone wants to start a brand. I feel like the brands that I've seen thrive in the last five years are all brands that just stay true to who they are. Starting a brand is very similar to starting a coffee shop. You have to go through the motions and everything. Even if you're putting out good product, if it doesn't have a good meaning, it's not going to stick. I think a big problem right now in fashion is that everyone's trying to just copy each other. People think that throwing a nice graphic on a really expensive blank is going to make them appear different. But it's not. You still have to be able to find the audience and find the niche that you want to grow in and really continue to cultivate that. But yeah, I think Orange County has a lot of potential. I think there's a lot of dope people that have come in that are starting brands and they're not out to chase a bag, but they're out to build something meaningful.

Are there any brands you are looking up to that's based in OC?

Tommy: One of my favorite brands is Basketcase Gallery out in Costa Mesa. I used to work at Nook where I saw them grow really organically, which I thought was a really dope thing. I remember their first few pop ups were smaller. Now you go to one of their events and there's like thousands of people. Their turnover rate is huge. People are chasing their stuff, and I think that's really cool.

Over the years, you guys have added over 30 different drinks to your menu. What’s your favorite menu item you’ve created?

Alex: Love on the Weekend. When I first started my coffee cart, it was one of the first things that I wanted to put out. All of my syrups and ingredients are sourced abroad or out of state. We don't have a big kitchen, so I can't make syrups, but I make an effort to source quality ingredients. I always source from small batch companies that put their heart and soul into making one single product. I put all of these ingredients together and that’s how Love on the Weekend came about. It has an earthy honey and a really sophisticated raw vanilla bean from Madagascar. It’s a combination of these flavors that really made this drink stand out over an average sweetened latte. It definitely hits those taste buds. That drink is so popular. I love it so much. I named it Love on the Weekend because I wanted to add a little bit of flavor to these names. One of my favorite artists was John Mayer. His song Love on the Weekend came out and I thought it was a banger, so I decided to name the drink after that song.

You mentioned sourcing ingredients. Why is that so important to you?

Tommy: I think a big part of the way we source is that we're willing to try everything that we can find. We'll spend hundreds of dollars trying to find the right syrup. From the syrups to the way we garnish, to the flavor profiles that we mix together, it's very new and fresh to our customer base. We've made our menu where everything is so different from one another that we can find a drink that fits your vibe or your preferences. We've put a lot of energy into that.

How important are factors like sustainability and ethical sourcing to you?

Alex: I think that's a big part for us. We always try to source real ingredients and support companies that are mission-driven. A lot of these companies that we source from do charitable events. They'll donate a lot of their funds back to the community. That's something that we strive to do as well. We make sure that everything we use has been sourced properly. We don't want to have anything that's artificial, that's the last thing we want to do. We want to make sure that the product that we bring in, whether it's merch or consumer goods, is sourced properly and has a good impact on the community.

What challenges have you faced over the years?

Tommy: We are a small shop. We're 300 something square feet. Honestly, just getting our doors open was the biggest challenge. Starting out, we had this small ice machine that served us well for a couple months. Then we had to squeeze in an actual ice machine and had to basically try and play Tetris every week. Especially the first year and six months that we were open, every week something was challenging us. We had to figure out a new way to do something every week. I think a big part of it now is that we're still learning as we go. There's so many logistical things, like how much milk we can carry. We even had to get our suppliers to be able to deliver multiple times a week versus one time a week. If we had a bigger space that would be really easy. But a big part of it here is we're doing something new all the time. I think that's been the hardest challenge, keeping up with the volume and making sure that we never run out of anything. The first year, we kept running out of things. So we had to figure out how to combat that. How to not waste goods. 

Has online internet and social media helped with your growth?

Alex: Social media does help. Whenever we post stories on Instagram that basically reminds people that we're still here. So you'll see one of our new stories and people will come in, be like, hey, I saw you guys have a new drink or something like that. It's definitely helped us out, but it's also definitely affected us at some points. You can't always make everyone happy. There’s just that one person that's going to complain about the smallest little detail. We might have missed a syrup because it was so busy. We might have not filled it to the rim. Little things like that irk some people. First thing they’ll do is go to Yelp and type out the worst review. I just taught the guys here to always be good to people. In the beginning I’d get a bad review and it would hurt me so much. But then I learned I’m not going to be able to make everybody happy. If we did make a mistake, we’ll learn from it and make sure it doesn’t happen again.

This is just a fun one for both of you guys. Favorite spots in Orange County?

Tommy: I feel like my personal two favorites are Stereoscope and Thank You Coffee. I really like what they're doing over there. Great spots and great people. For food, we eat out a lot. There's a lot of good food. 

Alex: I feel like I don't drink as much coffee as I used to anymore. I just kind of go for the atmosphere, catch up with some friends and whatnot. But for food, there's tons of great food spots. For me, I think when I go to a spot, I love going to a place that has a really great ambiance. A place where I can hang out with friends. I know the service and the people are going to be great. I want to leave the place feeling happy. I love Neat Coffee in Costa Mesa. There's so much, which I'm grateful for. LA definitely has a lot more. But I think OC is starting to get there a little bit more.